Comments on: The cowardice and intolerance of slapping a Darwin fish on your car bumper http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/ Your last stop before eternal enlightenment Wed, 17 Mar 2010 01:35:03 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Colin http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/comment-page-1/#comment-26363 Colin Fri, 05 Feb 2010 16:53:43 +0000 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/#comment-26363 "the whole point of the Darwin fish is intolerance;" Yes it is, but it is intolerance of intolerance. And while on the surface that may sound like hypocrisy, it isn't. If someone teaches their children to hate in the name of the Lord, there's nothing hypocritical about me pointing it out. I do have some sympathy for the author though. I suspect that the author would not have a problem with the Darwin fish if the original symbol (the Jesus fish) represented only the vocal minority of hate-first-Jesus-second Christians. Attacks on this minority often, unfortunately, also attack the majority of relatively tolerant Christians who don't deserve it. One the other hand, the Darwin Fish isn't really an attack on Christian beliefs. It's more of an alternative. Faith versus Skepticism. "similar mockery of a cherished symbol would rightly be condemned as bigoted if aimed at blacks or women or, yes, Muslims" I challenge the webmaster of this blog to spearhead a campaign to find a universal symbol for women and/or blacks. Why? Just so that I can watch the train wreck. “the whole point of the Darwin fish is intolerance;”

Yes it is, but it is intolerance of intolerance. And while on the surface that may sound like hypocrisy, it isn’t. If someone teaches their children to hate in the name of the Lord, there’s nothing hypocritical about me pointing it out.

I do have some sympathy for the author though. I suspect that the author would not have a problem with the Darwin fish if the original symbol (the Jesus fish) represented only the vocal minority of hate-first-Jesus-second Christians. Attacks on this minority often, unfortunately, also attack the majority of relatively tolerant Christians who don’t deserve it.

One the other hand, the Darwin Fish isn’t really an attack on Christian beliefs. It’s more of an alternative. Faith versus Skepticism.

“similar mockery of a cherished symbol would rightly be condemned as bigoted if aimed at blacks or women or, yes, Muslims”

I challenge the webmaster of this blog to spearhead a campaign to find a universal symbol for women and/or blacks. Why? Just so that I can watch the train wreck.

]]> By: Casey http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/comment-page-1/#comment-11633 Casey Thu, 07 Aug 2008 06:29:42 +0000 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/#comment-11633 The author appears to be Christian. Whether that is true or not I can easily say that if he were Muslim "Fitna" would in no way be comparable to a bumper magnet. Whether a radical or moderate Muslim, living in the Middle East or elsewhere "Fitna" evokes a much larger issue within the Islamic faith than the Darwin fish does within the Christian. On a side note, my personal favorite is the Jesus fish with "N' Chips" in the center of it. While the author of this article may see that to be mockery, I see a clever play on words. The author appears to be Christian. Whether that is true or not I can easily say that if he were Muslim “Fitna” would in no way be comparable to a bumper magnet. Whether a radical or moderate Muslim, living in the Middle East or elsewhere “Fitna” evokes a much larger issue within the Islamic faith than the Darwin fish does within the Christian.

On a side note, my personal favorite is the Jesus fish with “N’ Chips” in the center of it. While the author of this article may see that to be mockery, I see a clever play on words.

]]> By: betty76 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/comment-page-1/#comment-8105 betty76 Fri, 23 May 2008 16:07:33 +0000 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/#comment-8105 uh yeah. i disagree with almost every point made in this article. comparing darwin fish to "fitna"? c'mon! as stated above, it's a joke for one, and beyond that what about the jesus fish eating the darwin fish with "truth" written in it? everyone gets in on it. no one is offended. if someone is offended by a fish of any kind, they need to start praying to god to give them a sense of humor and an extra dash of tolerance. uh yeah. i disagree with almost every point made in this article. comparing darwin fish to “fitna”? c’mon! as stated above, it’s a joke for one, and beyond that what about the jesus fish eating the darwin fish with “truth” written in it? everyone gets in on it. no one is offended. if someone is offended by a fish of any kind, they need to start praying to god to give them a sense of humor and an extra dash of tolerance.

]]> By: forkgirl http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/comment-page-1/#comment-6087 forkgirl Fri, 04 Apr 2008 17:42:52 +0000 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/#comment-6087 yall ready fo this here are my criticisms: 1. The author states that : "sporting your Darwin fish is a way to speak truth to power on the cheap" When he says this, what the hell is he talking about? How does one, speak truth to power on the cheap. If you think about this, and the rest of his article, you realize, none of this makes any sense. (you must aquit) 2. "Geert Wilders’ film could very, very easily get him killed." As a christian you should have some respect for people dying for their beliefs. yall ready fo this

here are my criticisms:

1. The author states that : “sporting your Darwin fish is a way to speak truth to power on the cheap”
When he says this, what the hell is he talking about? How does one, speak truth to power on the cheap. If you think about this, and the rest of his article, you realize, none of this makes any sense. (you must aquit)

2. “Geert Wilders’ film could very, very easily get him killed.”
As a christian you should have some respect for people dying for their beliefs.

]]> By: Ubi Dubium http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/comment-page-1/#comment-5956 Ubi Dubium Wed, 02 Apr 2008 17:07:37 +0000 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/#comment-5956 Here in the US, sometimes it feels as though a rational thinker can get lost in a sea of fundamentalist voices. The Christian right loudly proclaims the US to be a Christian nation, and tries to insert their preaching into our government and our schools. One of the effects of their ever-proliferating fish emblems is that they are constantly reassuring each other of how numerous and predominant they are. I find it a very good thing for the Fundies to occasionally be confronted with an emblem that says "you do not speak for me". When I see one, I am comforted that I am not alone, just as Spoonman pointed out. That being said, I don't like the "Darwin" fish. Darwin was a very intelligent human being, not a semi-mythological god figure that one should prostrate onesself to. I much prefer the "evolve" fish, or just the ones with legs. They make the point better. Or the one on my car - the Pastafarian pirate fish. My message? "All religions deserve equal treatment from the Government, even the really stupid ones" and "Science class is for Science, not mythology". Here in the US, sometimes it feels as though a rational thinker can get lost in a sea of fundamentalist voices. The Christian right loudly proclaims the US to be a Christian nation, and tries to insert their preaching into our government and our schools. One of the effects of their ever-proliferating fish emblems is that they are constantly reassuring each other of how numerous and predominant they are. I find it a very good thing for the Fundies to occasionally be confronted with an emblem that says “you do not speak for me”. When I see one, I am comforted that I am not alone, just as Spoonman pointed out.

That being said, I don’t like the “Darwin” fish. Darwin was a very intelligent human being, not a semi-mythological god figure that one should prostrate onesself to. I much prefer the “evolve” fish, or just the ones with legs. They make the point better.

Or the one on my car – the Pastafarian pirate fish. My message? “All religions deserve equal treatment from the Government, even the really stupid ones” and “Science class is for Science, not mythology”.

]]> By: Spoonman http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/comment-page-1/#comment-5951 Spoonman Wed, 02 Apr 2008 12:46:09 +0000 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/#comment-5951 What this moron fails to grasp is that the Darwin fish is essentially the same symbol today that the jesus fish was in Roman times: a symbol to allow other members of an oppressed group know they're not alone. Gee, I wonder how the author would feel about my "The 9/11 hijackers prayed to god, too" bumper sticker. I'm all about the intolerance... What this moron fails to grasp is that the Darwin fish is essentially the same symbol today that the jesus fish was in Roman times: a symbol to allow other members of an oppressed group know they’re not alone.

Gee, I wonder how the author would feel about my “The 9/11 hijackers prayed to god, too” bumper sticker.

I’m all about the intolerance…

]]> By: Hugo http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/comment-page-1/#comment-5948 Hugo Wed, 02 Apr 2008 11:43:05 +0000 http://www.irreligion.org/2008/04/01/the-cowardice-and-intolerance-of-slapping-a-darwin-fish-on-your-car-bumper/#comment-5948 As I see it the Darwin fish is a joke, what is the reason Christians put their fish on their car? to protect their car? or to show off the numbers of their (superior) faith? If there were more Muslims in the US and if they made as much fuss about the personal lives of others as the Christians I'm sure you'd see a lot more anti-Muslim stuff in the US. It's no coincidence that the Fitna movie was made in a European country, we have much more real problems with Muslims than the US has, European atheist and freethinker websites are much more focused on the Muslim faith than US sites. As I see it the Darwin fish is a joke, what is the reason Christians put their fish on their car? to protect their car? or to show off the numbers of their (superior) faith?
If there were more Muslims in the US and if they made as much fuss about the personal lives of others as the Christians I’m sure you’d see a lot more anti-Muslim stuff in the US.
It’s no coincidence that the Fitna movie was made in a European country, we have much more real problems with Muslims than the US has, European atheist and freethinker websites are much more focused on the Muslim faith than US sites.

]]>