From the background, I was expecting some kind of TimeCube™esque pondering. Thankfully I was wrong.

Philosoraptor is indeed wise.

Why do we give any credance at all to creationist claims? We need to start telling them that they’re wrong…. and to shut the f–k up, and to crawl back under their rocks…. with the other worms and insects!

It is not just creationists. If there is no Adam and Eve there is no snake, no apple, no original sin. No original sin means Jesus died for nothing, nada.

“Jesus , he died for nothing” — it just lacks that certain something needed to attract the true believer.

Americans don’t care about facts. Creationists like Ken Ham and Kent Horvind construct special dino theme parks and museum exhibits trying to ‘explain’ why dino fossils are actually only-thousand-year-old petrified wood, or that vegetarian T-Rex’s were actually on Noah’s Ark. Its all so wonderfully stupid and maybe it doesn’t matter that much, except… except think of all those American kids being led around these exhibits. What are they learning? Is there such a thing as being one of the greatest nations in the world(and I say “one of the greatest” so as not to presume that we’re better than everyone) AND the dumbest? Apparently so.

Michael, it is not just Americans. Remember, the founder of the Creation Museum is an Australian.

Greg: I didn’t know that but thanks for pointing it out.

I’m embarrassed to admit that I have never thought of that particular point before–even as an atheist. *doh*

Ya this would be a good point except for the fact that God is all knowing, so he could have easily known the amount of time a day would be defined as before he had created it. And to Merkin, God did create Adam and Eve an they did sin though, so Jesus did die on the cross for a purpose.

Yeah, that’s why he completely forgot to mention the mighty T-Rex in the Bible. Just completely missed it!! Oops!! On which of the seven days did he create the dinosaurs?
Ian: He thinks god is all knowing all because some childish book full of fairy tales and forgeries written by barbaric men who thought that the smell of burning goat flesh pleased their god said so. Don’t even bother with that asshole. I don’t get it. Just what the hell are you doing in our play ground(Johnston)? Who the fuck are you trying to convince? We don’t go into your forums on your religious propaganda websites and smart off and presuppose bullshit. Surely you can find something more productive to do with your time. Your not converting anyone here so you’re wasting your time.

Oh!! I couldn’t resist, and if God is all knowing, how did he forget the fact that insects have six legs and not four?

All winged insects that go on all fours are detestable to you. Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those that have jointed legs above their feet, with which to hop on the ground. Of them you may eat: the locust of any kind, the bald locust of any kind, the cricket of any kind, and the grasshopper of any kind. But all other winged insects that have four feet are detestable to you. -Leviticus 11:20-23-

He also said the earth is flat and stationary.
Isaiah 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.
Sound like an all knowing god to anyone?

Dinosaurs are described in Job 40:15-19 an Job 41. And why get so angry if I write on here? Can you not defend what you believe? Does it bother you when somebody opposes you? And “four corners of the earth” is an expression of speech still used today, it doesn’t mean the earth was flat. In Isaiah 40:22 it says “the circle of the earth” so obviously Isaiah is not referring to a literal four corners.

Not angry, just curious as to what you hope to accomplish. And I’m calling B.S. The Bible means what it said, not what you mentally rewrite it to mean. That’s just the mental gymnastics you have to do to keep it accurate.

And if I was afraid to defend what I believe I would not have caught up with you again in “Young Americans Losing Their Religion”.
Also, that women should adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold pearls or costly clothing, but, which is proper for a woman professing godliness, with good works, let the woman learn in silence with all submission. And I PERMIT NO WOMAN TO TEACH OR USURP AUTHORITY FROM A MAN. -1 Timothy chapter 2:9-12
Try to mentally rewrite that. Is that what you call a benevolent god ? And what if you are right? You still haven’t explained away Leviticus 11:20-23 about 4 rather than 6 legged insects.
I’ll look up Job and see how hard you had to bend those verses to make it say whatever you want it to say to suit your purpose.

And last I check the earth isn’t immovable and everything in the known universe is constantly moving away from each other at the speed of light to the contrary of Psalms 104:5 claims.
“He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ENDS of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)”
The ends of the earth?

“He shakes the earth from its place and makes its PILLARS tremble. (From the NIV Bible, Job 9:6)”

“Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (Job 11:9)”
“that it might take the earth by the EDGES and shake the wicked out of it? (Job 38:13)”

Job 40:15-24
Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.
Dictionary.com definition of behemoth
BE⋅HE⋅MOTH
  /bɪˈhiməθ, ˈbiə-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [bi-hee-muhth, bee-uh-] Show IPA
–noun
1. an animal, perhaps the HIPPOPOTAMUS, mentioned in Job 40:15–24.
2. any creature or thing of monstrous size or power: The army’s new tank is a behemoth. The cartel is a behemoth small business owners fear.
Yeah, that’s right. The mighty hippo-saurus.

And what?

Yes, Mikey is back in the game. The best you can do is ignore the first definition and clench to # 2 which says “ANY creature or thing of monstrous size” which just makes that whole Bible verse ambiguous and just as easily could be referring to a mammoth or something else that ACTUALLY COEXISTED with humans.

On a lighter note: Anyone seen The Hangover or Transformers? Instant classics, I tell you. Go see it. You won’t be disappointed.

For the record, I’m atheist.

Been keeping an eye on the Johnston V Vestax luv/hate affair…..lol

The Koran / Quran has more scientific proof than the New Testament (Injeel), or old (Torah) – though it also has a lot of ‘hokey-pokey’ on other issues (ref: http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-ch3-3.htm ).

The New Testament has 18+ different versions / translations, yet the Koran has only 1 – word for word – character to character!

Why isn’t the ‘precious’ bible like so? And that’s just in the English language. If it was kept in it’s ‘original word’ as G-O-D intended, then we’d probably all speak Aramaic as well as English etc.

Not saying that the Moslems have it right, but if I was forced at gun-point to choose a religion out of Islam & Christianity, I think I’d choose Islam. After all – they brought numerals (which replaced roman numerals) from the Hindus, & the concept of “0″ (zero) which of course is responsible for all the computers & technology we have today; also medicine & surgery, alcohol, navigation equipment, maps, soap, spices etc.

Christianity would’ve kept us in the “Flat Earth Society”, & Dark Ages.

I also knew of a Anglican Bishop who said that “the Bible was the greatest piece of literature ever been written – pity it was 100% bullshit……” Lol

Excuse me now as I continue to drink my red wine.

Actually, the link above was supposed to be http://www.islam-guide.com/ch3-10.htm

Too pissed to care ;-)

Glenn: Like your analysis on the Bible verse Koran. Yes I suppose its obvious that me and Johnston kind of have a thing for eachother(please, please don’t take that out of context). But you are exactly right. Why do we need bookoo versions of the Bible. If you actually go through each one of them, they keep trying to reword the same verses to cover up their mistakes and change the context of the original text so that if you point out a problem in King James, they can pull out the NIV Bible and say, “Nuh Uh!! That’s not what it meant to say”!!

Well on the woman verse you brought up, this is referring to how women should be submissive to their husbands when it came to spiritual things. God intended for the man to be the spiritual leader of the household. And I am quite surprised that you haven’t seen a 4 legged grasshopper, because they are everywhere. Not really, to tell you the truth I’m not sure what the Bible is referring to here so I’m not going to pretend I do. And for the definition it says perhaps a hippopotamus. But what hippopotamus has a tail like a cedar tree? Not any that I’ve seen. And I’m not sure why you say that the Quran has more scientific proof, than the Bible. http://www.bibleandscience.com/science/quran.htm Plus there are many prophesies that came true in the Bible. And there are different version of the Bible because we speak different English now than when we used to. The KJV is not in modern English so the NIV was made. This was considered to paraphrased and not close enough to the original text so the ESV was made. The different translations of the Bible are not to cover errors, just to give everyone a Bible that they can read and understand.

And Glenn, neither one of the links you provided talk about how the Quran is more accurate than the Bible. I’m guessing you accidentally gave the wrong link

You did pretend to know what it was referring to, you said it was referring to a dinosaur and now you are backing down because the very definition of behemoth makes that whole passage ambiguous. So do you believe that we should not allow women to teach in our high schools and universities, be appointed to be the CEO’s of major corporations, or be elected to high government office because the Bible says that women are not allowed to teach or usurp authority from a man? Of course not. You wouldn’t have the balls to tell a woman that she can’t have her own franchise if she was presiding over male employees because the Bible says she’s not allowed to have that kind of authority. And you think this is where you get your moral values? It’s completely arbitrary. Why should we give credence to a book whose most ardent supporter abandons when it becomes inconvenient?

Clearly you didn’t read anything I just wrote. I did not back down from it being a dinosaur. I said that hippopotamuses (or whatever the plural of it is) don’t have huge tails like cedar trees. I also said that it was referring to spiritual things. The man is supposed to be the spiritual leader of the household. This does not mean women can have no power.

One of the most important prophesies in the New Testament stands out like a sore thumb for its repeated appearance in the gospels and gross failure to materialize. In Matthew 16:27-28,23:36,24:34;Mark 9:1,13:30; and Luke 9:27, Jesus says he will return and establish his kingdom within a generation(the generation of his close followers) before the listeners die. We are still speaking and his followers are all dead and gone. Here’s my favorite.
Matt 16:27-28
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Verily I say unto you, There be some STANDING HERE, which shall NOT TASTE OF DEATH, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Isaiah 17:1 Damascus is predicted to cease to be a city. In fact, Damascus is one of the oldest continuously inhabited cities.
Jeremiah 49:33 predicts that Hazor will become an everlasting wasteland in which humans will never again dwell. The King James Bible says it will become INHABITED BY DRAGONS. None of this has happened.
Zechariah 10:11 The Nile is predicted to dry up. This has not happened.
Ezekiel 29, 30. The land of Egypt will be laid waste by Nebuchadnezzar, all its people killed and rivers dried up. It will remain uninhabited for 40 years. Still waiting!!!!!

We cannot rely on the Bible as evidence of fulfilled prophesies because we have no independent confirmation that those events ever occurred. For example, history does not support Luke’s Christmas story about a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the Roman world was required to go to their place of origin to be “taxed”. Surely such a vast undertaking would’ve been recorded. History does record a census affecting only Judea and Galilee, but this took place in 6-7 CE, which conflicts with the fact that Jesus was supposedly born in the days of Herod, who died in 4 BCE. Furthermore, Jesus was never the ruler of Israel(Mic 5:2). This aspect of the prophesy failed. And was never called Immanuel either, as the prophesy in Isaiah 7:14 foretold.

And I PERMIT NO WOMAN TO TEACH OR USURP AUTHORITY FROM A MAN.
Can you not read? He permits not woman to teach or have authority over a man. It means what it says. Exactly what it says.

Prov 30:5-6
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
ADD THOU NOT UNTO HIS WORDS, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
That’s right. Stop adding to his words.

Good idea. Thanks Ian. That’s kind of why I told him to go elsewhere so likeminded people like you and I can share our thoughts and not have listen to this douchebag. I’ll give this forum a swing.

Since Ian asked that we move this to the forum we should do it so this is my last post on this page. Deuteronomy 4:2 “Do not add to what I command you”. I know what the Bible says so of course I would not add to it, but what is written in it also has to be taken into context. This letter is from Paul and is addressing Timothy specifically on matters inside of the church. Paul is saying women should not have leadership positions in the church, because the men are to be the spiritual leaders. And as for the prophecies you mentioned, they still could be fulfilled. Also both the NIV and ESV say jackals will be in the land, not dragons. And for some prophecies that have already come true http://www.100prophecies.org/

http://www.bartelby.net/108/24/49.html This is where I found that passage about the dragons. Apparently it came from King James Version. So once again we have different versions of the Bible saying different things. Does that not make it obvious that there is some damage control going on here? Anyhow, I’m going to stop clogging up these pages of articles with irrelevant conversation for now on. If you’re brave enough, meet me in the forum.