For those of you who, like me, were raised on a diet of “Happy Days” back in the seventies you will remember that the Fonz could not say “I was wrong”. Whenever he was expected to he would mumble and stutter and stumble over his admission, much to the delight of the viewing audience.
I thought of that this last day as I have read Beetle’s comments in the blog regarding Richard Dawkins’ terrible advice to his poor child. After I pointed out that Mr. Dawkins’ advice to his daughter was irresponsible, arbitrary and self-refuting, you think that Beetle might come out and say “I was wrong”, but alas he can’t even get as far as the Fonz.
In fact, he’ll apparently say just about anything BUT “I was wrong”. And it would seem the very last thing he’ll say is “Dawkins was wrong.”
Initially Beetle tried just asserting that all we can know is through our five senses. Perhaps he thought that repeating a self-refuting statement would make it true. Or maybe he just wanted to stand in solidarity with his champion.
“Yes, your complaints against well articulated common sense are facile. It is, after all, a letter to child, not a freshman philosophy class.”
Note the shifft here. Beetle has now ceded the ground of the argument itself and has retreated to defending it with respect to the fact that the target audience was a child.
Frankly, I find this an ageist defense for it amounts to saying “False and self-refuting statements are okay if they are presented to a child.” Let me tell you this: if I discovered today that my daughter’s elementary school teacher was telling her things that were false and self-refuting, she’d be out of that class tomorrow. There is only one Doctor who is allowed to say self-refuting things to kids, and his name is Dr. Seuss. Now if Dawkins wants to put his advice into the form of a winsome children’s poem and accompany it with fantastical illustrations I might take a second look.
This may look like a churlish attack on Beetle. But the fact is that such deference to authorities like Dawkins is a plague within the atheist community. They pride themselves on being “free thinkers” and yet so many fall in line to defend the most indefensible statements of their stars. They denounce deference to authority and yet they fall over themselves to defer to their own authorities.
Beetle’s attitude toward Dawkins reminds me of the popular phrase “My country, right or wrong.” So it goes for the free thought authorities as well, apparently.
The problem is that that is only the first part of Carl Schurz’s famous quote, and we are impoverished if we miss the last bit. So here it is:
“My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”
Posts by Greenworld:
Last week Stephen Maitzen, a very fine philosopher of religion, provided the links for two of his papers. The popular distillation of the argument is “Does God Destroy our Duty of Compassion?” (Free Inquiry, (Oct/Nov 2010), 52-53). That is the place if you want a quick overview of the argument. The second paper, ostentatiously titled “Ordinary Morality Implies Atheism,” (European Journal for Philosophy of Religion, 2 (2009), 107-26), lays out the argument more fully. We’re going to spend some time on the topics. I really do recommend you take the time at least to read the Free Inquiry article.
Since I’m still recovering from teaching a one week intensive class, I’ll take a very modest step into the whole debate today by addressing a topic that emerges in the beginning of both papers when Maitzen refers to a recent survey by Penny Edgell et al which shows that “Americans distrust atheists more than any other group…” (“Duty,” 52).That’s not quite true I suspect. Rather, Americans distrust atheists more than any other group surveyed. But I am pretty sure that given the choice of hiring a member of the free thought society or a member of Al-Qaeda that most Americans will choose the former. Still, I also admit this may not seem like much of a consolation. As a general observation atheists are viewed askance. To put it bluntly, atheists are like the Dodge Nitro: they may not be the worst car on the road but they’re not far off.
I think that this is a really important issue to camp on for a bit not least for the enormous practicality of it. So what explains the low esteem in which atheists are held? This is Maitzen’s analysis: “This distrust apparently comes from the widespread belief that atheism is bad for morality and that atheists are therefore morally unreliable.” (“Duty,” 52) Again he writes, “This popular association of morality with theism may explain why atheists showed up as the single most distrusted minority group in a recent opinion survey….” (“Ordinary,” 107). So Maitzen’s analysis is that Christians (by far the largest demographic group in Edgell’s survey) typically reject atheism for having an inadequate meta-ethical framework to ground moral discourse.
I demur. I think that analysis is off by a good bit. In point of fact I don’t think the general distrust is generated by concerns over the inadequacy of atheistic morality at all. So then what is the problem? I would suggest that the problem lies not with atheism but rather with atheists and it is outlined in Romans 1:
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
From an epistemological perspective, there are two ways to read Paul’s claim here. Either people naturally have belief in God and certain of his attributes as properly basic or they naturally reason to it from properly basic evidence available in the natural world. Whichever of these two views you take doesn’t really matter for our purposes. What does matter is the consequence. In short, this means that atheists who deny the knowledge which is generally available to everyone are wickedly suppressing evidence that is available to them.
Consider the following analogy. Imagine you are Galileo staring in amazement through your telescope at the moons of Jupiter. It makes no sense: according to the church’s official Ptolemaic cosmology there shouldn’t be movement in the heavens around anything but the earth. And yet these satellites appear to be moving around another heavenly body.
Word has gotten out about your discovery and so a Jesuit astronomer shows up on your doorstep and sternly demands to peer through your telescope. You willingly oblige – after all, you’ve nothing to hide. He does so but instead of admitting your discovery he sternly retorts “I see nothing” and he writes as much in a report back to the Vatican.
Would you still include that Jesuit on your Christmas card list? Not likely. How can that Jesuit scholar possibly deny the evidence right in front of him? And yet he does. It is pretty obvious to you that he did see something. After all, he’s a competent scientist, and he surely isn’t blind. In that moment you conclude that he was suppressing the truth by his wickedness, unwilling as he was to confront the falsity of his Ptolemaic worldview and submit to a new theory.
I submit that this is the way many Christians view atheists, as unwilling to admit what they see through the telescope. The only way that atheists can deny the existence and attributes of God is because of a sinful unwillingness to confront the truth that lies before them.
This means that insofar as atheists are interested in increasing their public image among Christians it will come not by defending an atheistic view of moral objectivism or critiquing the Christian theistic view of moral objectivism. Rather, it will come by challenging the popular view based on Romans 1 that they are sinfully suppressing that which they really do know.
For further discussion see chapter 10 “Not All Atheists are Fools,” in my book You’re Not as Crazy as I Think (Biblica, 2011).
Inhabitants of New Zealand, scheduled to be among the first to meet the apocalypse according to a US fundamentalist preacher, this morning confirmed they were still in existence as the appointed time was reached in their time zone.
There were also unconfirmed reports that Tonga has, thus far, failed to boil into the Pacific.
Eighty-nine-year-old tele-evangelist Harold Camping had prophesied that the “Rapture” would begin with powerful earthquakes at 6pm in each of the world’s regions, after which the good would be beamed up to heaven.
This morning, Kiwis confirmed there were no signs of the dead rising from the grave, nor of the living ascending into the clouds to meet Jesus Christ.
Twitter users were disappointed by the absence of Armaggedon.
Daniel Boerman said on Twitter, the micro-blogging website: “I’m from New Zealand, it is 6.06pm, the world has NOT ended. No earthquakes here, all waiting for the Rapture can relax for now.”
Gavin Middleton wrote: “Well it’s 13 minutes past the Rapture here in New Zealand. I’m still holding out hope for the trumpet call and the firey rain…”
Similarly, on the Pacific islands whose clocks ticked over to 6pm before the fateful hour hit New Zealand, there was no evidence of a “super horror story” predicted by Camping – no zombies, no true believers hurtling skywards, no arch-angels and no trumpeters.
A post on Godlike Productions, a website dedicated to conspiracy theories and UFOs, reported that Tonga, which reached 6pm one hour before New Zealand, was “still on the map”.
Likewise, no reports of chaos were heard from Christmas Island in Kiribati, where the super-earthquake was set to hit first.
Two minor earthquakes did hit the Pacific earlier in the day, measuring 3.1 and 4.8 and not triggering any tsunami warnings, but earthquakes of that magnitude are a regular occurrence in the region.
Vicky Hyde, spokesman for the New Zealand Skeptic Society said she was confident the Rapture was not imminent.
“These kind of predictions come up particularly in times of economic or social uncertainty – which is pretty much almost every year actually, you can track them, whether it’s commentary impacts or the rapture or giant space aliens or something.
“And the only thing they have in common is they are all wrong,” she said.
Camping spread his message of doom via Family Radio, which has a network of 66 radio stations and online broadcasts.
After today’s day of reckoning, he said non-believers would suffer through hell on earth until October 21, when God would pull the plug on the planet once and for all.
But after incorrectly predicting the end of the world in 1994, Camping’s prophecies have been met with derision. And it seems this time he was wrong again.
New York mayor Michael Bloomberg – who is Jewish and, according to Camping’s prophecy, therefore unlikely to be beamed up to sit alongside Jesus in heaven – said on his weekly radio show yesterday that he would partially suspend parking restrictions in New York if the world ended today.
David Speer, on Twitter, said: “Oh well no rapture. Just as well. New Zealand didn’t need that right now. Another delay to the filming of The Hobbit would’ve been terrible.”
FACTS about May 21, 2011
AT THIS TIME IN HISTORY THERE IS NO VALID, BIBLICAL EVIDENCE OR AUTHORITY WHICH INDICATES THAT WE CANNOT KNOW THE PRECISE DAY OF JUDGMENT. THE GREAT AMOUNT OF BIBLICAL SIGNS AND PROOFS ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEE THAT JUDGMENT DAY WILL BEGIN ON MAY 21st THIS YEAR.
Who or What is Family Radio?
Family Stations, Inc. is a non-profit, non-commercial, Christian radio network. It was established in 1958 with one FM station in the San Francisco bay area. Mr. Camping along with two other Christian men purchased KEAR with the sole intent of proclaiming the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Today there are sixty-six owned and operated radio stations throughout the U.S.
Along with these domestic stations Family Stations also broadcasts its programming from numerous international broadcast facilities throughout the world.
Who is Harold Camping?
Harold Camping is the President and General Manager of Family Stations, Inc. He graduated from UC Berkeley in 1942 with a degree in civil engineering. Mr. Camping has been a full-time volunteer since Family Radio’s infancy and has never received compensation for his service.
What Qualifies Mr. Camping to make the pronouncement of May 21, 2011?
Mr. Camping has been a tireless student of the Bible for over five decades. The tens of thousands of hours he has spent analyzing the Bible has given him a unique perspective of the entirety of Scripture. He has dedicated his life to prepare himself to answer questions raised concerning God’s Word to man.
What is the Open Forum program?
What began approximately fifty years ago as simply an informational program for local bay area listeners, blossomed into what is known today as the Open Forum.
The Open Forum program airs Monday through Friday evenings by radio, shortwave, and the Internet. It is an anonymous call-in program designed to allow anyone to ask any question related to the Bible.
How can Family Radio be so bold as to declare a date for Christ’s return?
Given the overwhelming biblical evidence, the Family Stations, Inc. Board of Directors made a determination to dedicate all available resources to proclaim the warning of May 21, 2011. God has prepared Family Radio for this important time in history. Given the population of the world, radio and the internet are the perfect vehicles to deliver this warning.
What proof is there for the date of May 21, 2011?
The date May 21, 2011 was derived solely from evidence found in the Bible. Mr. Camping saw God had placed, in Scripture, many important signs and proofs. These proofs alert believers that May 21st of 2011 is the date Christ will return for His people and begin a period of the final destruction of the world.
What signs precede the Day of Judgment?
Jesus warned of several spiritual signs, such as the complete degradation of the Christian church, the devastating moral breakdown of society, the re-establishment of National Israel in1948, the emergence of the ‘Gay Pride Movement’, and the complete disregard of the Bible in all of society today as direct evidence of His return.
What is the Timeline of History?
The timeline of history is God’s predetermined timetable for the unfolding of God’s Gospel program for this world. In other words the length of time between the day God created this world in 11,013 B.C. and the day he will destroy it in October 21, 2011.
The discovery of this information built the foundation for what God would later reveal from the Bible as the date for the end.
Judgment Day on May 21, 2011 is the culmination of five decades of intensive biblical study by Mr. Camping and other bible teachers who have discovered the same biblical data.
What do past Biblical events have to do with today?
The precision with which God marked time in the past shows how precisely He keeps time and orders all the events of man.
God uses such phrases in the Bible as “in the fullness of time”, or “To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.”
God declares in the Bible that “He hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation”
Just as all Biblical events took place exactly as God determined, so too will all future events take place as He has planned.
God knew before He created this world the exact day He would destroy it, the question is whether God reveals His plan to others.
Does God reveal his plan?
Yes! All true believers throughout the world are part of Christ’s family and therefore they not only belong to Jesus Christ, but they are one with Him as well.
Jesus calls His people His “friends” and “His beloved”
Jesus tells His “beloved” what He and His Father will do before They do it. Only, true believers are given spiritual eyesight to see and understand that they may be ready and prepared for the day of Christ’s return.
All those who are not “born again” do not possess the spiritual eyesight to see this evidence. Sadly, Christ will come upon them as a “thief in the night”.
Jesus speaks to his people through the pages of His word, the Bible.
His Spirit guides them “into all truth.”
“Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.”
God is the guardian of His secrets contained in the Bible and only He determines when or if His secrets are revealed. The Holy Spirit reveals to Christ’s people the information needful for them not only to be ready, but also to warn the world, Christ is returning.
Armed with the vital information needed to know the day of Christ’s return all true believers, as servants of God, are commanded to declare what Christ’s Spirit has revealed. They must “blow the trumpet” and warn the world, Judgment is coming.
Can all of mankind understand that Judgment Day is coming?
Just as wise men of old sought to see the young Jesus, so too will the wise of today seek Christ before the end. “a wise man’s heart (one who is born again) discerneth both time and judgment.”
God promises His people they will be like Noah who was aware and ready for the day when the floodwaters of destruction came upon this earth.
What will take place on May 21?
On May 21, 2011 two events will occur. These events could not be more opposite in nature, the one more wonderful than can be imagined; the other more horrific than can be imagined.
A great earthquake will occur the Bible describes it as “such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.” This earthquake will be so powerful it will throw open all graves. The remains of the all the believers who have ever lived will be instantly transformed into glorified spiritual bodies to be forever with God.
On the other hand the bodies of all unsaved people will be thrown out upon the ground to be shamed.
The inhabitants who survive this terrible earthquake will exist in a world of horror and chaos beyond description. Each day people will die until October 21, 2011 when God will completely destroy this earth and its surviving inhabitants.
What is Family Radio specifically doing to warn the World?
Family Stations, Inc. broadcasts internationally in more than sixty-one different languages. Its programming can also be seen and heard worldwide on the Internet. Numerous billboards have been placed throughout the world warning of Judgment Day. While teams of volunteers carry literature concerning May 21 to many foreign countries. On top of this teams of RV caravans have been sent throughout the US to deliver this great message.
Why RV Caravans?
In September of 2010 Family Radio developed a plan to send out teams of caravans consisting of recreational vehicles. The caravans travel into towns and cities across the United States warning of Judgment Day, May 21, 2011. Each member of the caravan project is a volunteer, who has dedicated his or her life to warn the people of the U.S. and boldly proclaim this very important message.
Is Family Radio the only group declaring this message?
No! There are many other groups and individuals, sending out the warning of May 21, 2011. A growing groundswell of individuals and groups have become convicted of this message on each continent and are working hard to warn their neighbors, cities and countries.
Billboards have proven to be very effective. They are being placed in many U.S., Canadian and foreign cities, not only by Family Radio, but other organizations and individuals as well. Presently there are over 2000 billboards, posters, and bus posters throughout the world, with many going up weekly. The billboard messages are simple, and designed to clearly communicate the same message, Judgment Day May 21, 2011.
What are the listeners of Family Radio doing to prepare for that day?
Jesus gave explicit commands to His people as to how they are to behave until he returns. Jesus said “Go ye and teach all nations…” He also said to “occupy until I come.” Believers who believe Christ will return on May 21 are commanded to warn the world and encourage concerned people to pray for God’s mercy.
Will there be some sort of “gathering” before May 21, 2011?
No. This message is proclaimed to individuals not to specific groups, religions or nations. Family Radio is not a church or religion.
Each person must be “born again” in order to be ready for Christ’s return and be ready to be “caught up” wherever they live in this world.
Jesus said in Matthew 24:40-41 “Then shall two be in the field: the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left”
What if May 21 ends and nothing occurs?
The Biblical evidence is too overwhelming and specific to be wrong. Christ’s people can look with great confidence to this date because God promises His “beloved” He will not come upon them as a thief in the night.
God in His mercy has revealed the vital information needed to know the day. Judgment Day on May 21, 2011 will occur because the bible declares it. Anyone whom God has not saved will arrive at that day with no hope for salvation. God warns simply the “door will be shut.”
What should a person do when he or she hears this message?
Cry out to God for mercy and fully recognize you are a sinner. One must approach God with a broken and contrite attitude, because after all every human being, without exception, is guilty before God.
Only God decides whom He will save and it is only Christ’s ‘gift’ of salvation that can save one from destruction and the terrible events coming upon this world on May 21, 2011.
What do we say to all those who say Jesus will come as a thief in the night?
The Bible speaks of two kinds of people in the world. Those within God’s kingdom he calls his “beloved.” The other, much larger portion of the human race, God describes as those “without” or outside the kingdom of God.
Those “without” will say at the end of time “Peace and safety” These people will mistakenly believe all is well. But God warns, “then sudden destruction cometh upon them…”
The fact so many church leaders are insisting Christ will come as a “thief in the night” (that is, no one can know the day or the hour) is another very important Biblical ‘sign’ Christ’s return is very close. Far too many people mistakenly presume they are at “Peace” with God and therefore in “safety.”
Sadly, many assume no human being can know, because they mistakenly believe even Jesus himself does not know the day or hour of His own return.
The belief Christ will come “as a thief in the night” for everyone, including Christ’s people, is the foundational basis for which most Christians, including church leaders and pastors reject May 21, 2011.
However, God has written in His Word he will tell his people exactly what he plans before he brings it to pass:
“Surely the LORD GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.”
God’s “beloved” people are not in darkness that that day would come upon them as a thief in the night. God graciously has written in I Thessalonians 5 verse 4
“But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.”
What about all those in the past who predicted Jesus would come in their day?
Many religious groups and individuals throughout history have predicted Jesus’ return, but they were always wrong. No theologian, no matter how learned or intelligent, could know the day because God had not revealed it. The scriptural evidence needed to know the exact day could not be known before 1988, the year the ‘Church age’ ended. The Bible indicates prior to this year that date could not be known.
Many Church leaders of the past looked at political as well as natural events to prove their predictions and they were repeatedly wrong.
God is the guardian of His secrets. The words needed to know the time of the end “are closed up and sealed till the time of the end”
Only Christ Jesus, the “Lamb,” is able to unseal the Bible, and reveal what is needful to know the day and the hour of His return.
Didn’t Harold Camping say that the world would end in 1994?
In 1992 Mr. Camping wrote a book entitled 1994? In that book Mr. Camping highlighted the abundant evidence pointing to 1994 as a probable year of Christ’s return. Given the abundance of information pointing 1994 and the urgency of time, the book 1994? was written. Mr. Camping felt as a teacher, he must share the Biblical information he had found and warn the world.
Important subsequent biblical information was not yet known, so this book was incomplete. Mr. Camping warned there may be something he overlooked therefore the question mark was prominently placed on the title.
Mr. Camping wrote on pages 494 and 495 of the book 1994? he believed 2011 was the most probable year of Christ’s second coming. Given the fact 2011 is the 7000 year anniversary of the flood, but he misunderstood Jesus’ teaching in Matthew 24 verse 22 “except those days should be shortened”
At the time Mr. Camping concluded the period of “great tribulation” would be shortened from twenty three years, as the Bible teaches, to 2300 evening mornings or six and one third years. .
Mr. Camping wrote in 1994?:
“God appears to be declaring that this final tribulation period should be a certain length of time. If it were that length of time, it seems it would fit perfectly with God’s plan of 7000 years. Judgment Day would be 2011 A.D.
But for the sake of the elect those day will be shortened.”
Why is there no question now?
In the nineteen years since 1994? Was written the biblical evidence for 2011 has greatly solidified. Today there is no longer any question, May 21, 2011 is the day in which Jesus Christ will return.
What do you say to those who insist we cannot know the precise date of Judgment Day?
For one to object to May 21st, 2011 one must have BIBLICAL AUTHORITY to do so. Objections cannot be based upon consensus, traditions or fear. God has given far too many biblical proofs for anyone to disregard May 21 simply because he or she does not like it.
The Bible has led us to May 21, 2011
This date is not the product of the mind of one man or a group of men.
It is the culmination of study of the entire Bible, both the Old and New Testaments.
Every word written in the original Biblical “autographs” were dictated by God, therefore all words, numbers and sentences in these original writings are to be trusted as coming from God.
The fact that this date is the result of the synthesis of all of Scripture causes May 21st, 2011 to take on very sobering factuality. It is no longer opinion, but a matter of fact.
May 21, 2011 is God’s date. All other predictions are man’s attempt to predict the end. So it becomes a matter of eternal life, or eternal death. One can no longer presume May 21st of this year will be just another normal day.
Each person must come to entrust their lives to what God has written in His Word the Bible and plead to Him for mercy. Otherwise God will come upon them with unmerciful vengeance on May 21, 2011.
Cuss Words vs. Threats of Burning in Hell
Being an atheist/skeptic for a few years, I have noticed many Christians complaining about atheists using profanity and sometimes wishing death on them. At first, it may seem like atheists are really cold-hearted, cruel people. And when you develop that sort of thinking you start to feel sorry for the Christians getting insulted by atheists day and night. This is a feeling of pity; Christians like to point out the actions of one atheist and assume that by definition most atheists are rude and that the Christians themselves instead are actually decent-minded people who speak in a clear voice, thanks to their humble faith and obedience to the words of Jesus Christ.
However, this is nothing but a way for Christians to trick others into thinking much like they do. When you are competing against someone in an argument, you always try your best to look good and convincing while exposing your opponents’ flaws as much as possible. The way I see it, many of these Christians that attempt to do this are assuming that they are better than atheists, simply because they believe in a god. Unfortunately, this is far from the truth.
To be quite honest, it’s unfair to label atheists as “immature” or “rude,” when Christians clearly have flaws of their own as well (not to mention that Christians also resort to using cuss words and make death threats themselves too!).
First off, let me just say that while there are atheists like that around the Internet, the words and actions of one atheist do not change the fact that atheism is simply a lack of belief in a god. The angrier atheists out there most likely had a history of problems regarding Christianity (after all, most people who became atheists at some point in their lives were once believers). Everyone who has had problems with Christianity has had their own unique kinds: one may have discarded Christianity instantly because he felt like he was being lied to, that he wasn’t convinced of Yahweh‘s existence; another may have had long years of frustration with their faith but desperately held on to his belief because of how his family might react if he were to come out and proclaim his lack of faith. Heck, even people who have been sexually abused have left the fold and became atheists or something equivalent. I would bet that most people left also because of the thought of them or a loved one burning in hell.
If my kids broke something in my house, I would have a heart and forgive them, because I would love them no matter what they do. Of course, I would ground them or make them do extra chores, but this is a far cry compared to burning in the literal Christian hell without a time limit.If you look at the way Christianity works, from a highly-sensitive person’s point of view, you would have freaked out and start having lots of paranoid delusions. There have been nights where I all of a sudden would jump out of bed and feel my heart beating fast (like I was drinking coffee or something) because of hell. Since I had left Christianity, I felt very afraid of the thought of unexpectedly dying without Christ in my life and seeing myself being tossed into the lake of fire by a very loving, generous god. Just thinking about that makes me despise him with a passion. And yet, Christians are crying about us skeptics using foul language? So what? That’s nothing compared to threatening any sensitive person with such a concept as hell.
Do you have ANY idea how traumatizing that can be to an emotional person? It’s probably even scarier than losing a loved one, because you would be cowering in fear, believing that you will be suffering for all eternity and no one (not even Yahweh) will come by and see you again. That’s just horrible, isn’t it? And yet Christians claim that Yahweh is such a loving god. Why won’t Yahweh forgive us — even after death? If we can’t apologize in the afterlife for our unforgiving sins, then that means there will be no free will in heaven or hell. With that said, it pretty much contradicts Yahweh’s love for all humanity. If my kids broke something in my house, I would have a heart and forgive them, because I would love them no matter what they do. Of course, I would ground them or make them do extra chores, but this is a far cry compared to burning in the literal Christian hell without a time limit.
It’s kind of like this:
You’re a secular humanist who does charity work in Africa, helping build bridges and homes for those who have little to no resources to take care of themselves. However, an earthquake strikes the village you’re in and you die as a result. Assuming Christianity is true, you would be seen facing Yahweh, being told that you are not worthy of joining him in his kingdom and instead cast down into the fiery pits of hell. Why? Because you didn’t believe in him at the time you died. You chose to be “materialistic” and thus you are now forced to go through excruciating pain forever and ever. And while this happens, murderers and rapists who have turned their lives around for Christ are given the free pass to heaven. I know I keep using this example a lot, but it shows you just how awful the threats of Christianity are to those who are sensitive about their own personal beliefs in contrast with what Christians believe.
So, with that said, which do you find to be harsher? Saying the words “fuck” or “asshole” to someone in an argument or being told that you are worthless without Christ and deserve to burn in hell? Of course, regardless of hell’s actual existence, it’s still a pretty disturbing threat. It’s meant to control peoples’ thoughts and actions. I have no respect for anyone who threatens or simply “warns” me of eternal hellfire if I don’t come to Christ, and thus I will tell them to fuck off and go die in a fire. Rude? Yes. Immature? Yes. But is it more offensive than telling people they’re going to go to hell? No. I’m sick and tired of hearing Christians repeat over and over again about how we’re so mean and cruel to them. Well… you know what? That’s because we have been through lots of hard times thanks to your hateful religion’s bigotry. We have been told how we’re worthless unless we come to Christ, that if we live a certain lifestyle or practice a form of sexuality then we’re not worth the love of your supposedly loving god. That’s why we cuss at you.
We’re fed up with being called evil people. We’re not. Our lack of belief in YOUR god has nothing to do with how we act towards insensitive people such as yourselves. It is people like YOU that make us feel useless and miserable. We are angry at YOU because of this. Many of us have decided to rebel against your religion for what your god’s blind sheep has done to them. We don’t condone violence, but we still tell plenty of you to go and die when you say such ignorant and hateful things like how homosexuals are inferior to heterosexuals or how someone with a harsh disease deserved it because of their lack of belief in YOUR god. This is why we don’t respect your kind that much. It’s because you try and brainwash thousands of little children every Sunday morning, telling them that a big man in the sky exists and will punish anyone who doesn’t believe in him. And when they grow up they will continue to pass along the genes of stupidity and multiply like viruses.
It’s just heart-wrenching to me to see how Christianity can destroy so many peoples’ minds like that. Most Christians are afraid of questioning their own god because of the fear of eternal damnation. It’s all set there in case someone tries to reason with their god. Well all I can say is that I want no fucking part in this fucked-up lifestyle. Yes, Christian, I just said the word “fuck” twice. What are you going to do about it? Are you going to tell me I have no morals and that I’m probably a liberal and voted for Obama? How about you stay the FUCK away from my life and go make something of yourself instead? Why not just leave me alone? I’m well aware of the bullshit your religion preaches; I’ve heard it all a million times. Quit wasting my time and let me make something of my life, you self-righteous twat.
Stop telling others how to live their lives just because they don’t share the same philosophy as you do. I would rather have no god to comfort me in times of need than get involved with this bullshit any longer. Christianity is a crutch to society and must be stopped. This is why I and so many atheists are very hostile towards your loving religion. All I can say is that I DO have morals and I DO enjoy my life. I love having freedom from a world of fairy tales!
Your threat of heretics burning in hell, dear Christian, is like someone telling me Santa Claus won’t deliver any presents this Christmas. Keep your bullshit religion away from us, we have had enough. And to all crybabies claiming that Christianity is dying, no it isn’t. Christianity is alive and well. So, Christians, go back to your nest and leave the sensitive people out of this. Your ignorance of reality and arrogance towards us makes you no better, so stop claiming all this “True Christian TM” bullshit before I tell you off about how Christians aren’t supposed to judge others as IF they’re *better* than them. Let your god do the judging (if he even exists).
Finally, Christian, if there’s any consolation to this, it’s that no matter how much you try to convince me that hell is real and that I’m going there, you still have to deal with the threats of hell as announced in religions like Islam and Hinduism. The following link contains scriptures that also condemn Christians to hell for believing in the wrong god: http://www.irreligion.org/2011/02/17/christians-are-going-to-burn-in-hell/
And with that, thanks to all that managed to read all this. It made me feel much better about myself. And to all the sensitive people out there who feel the same as I do: don’t let these childish threats of burning in hell get the best of you! Know for a fact that once we die, that’s it. Consciousness ends with death. Think of it as a long, deep slumber! With that said, there is your motivation to live a long, meaningful life. It really is beautiful, especially without religion interfering. Wake up and smell the fresh air!
THE Baillieu Government will move to ban a bad-taste concert being staged on one of the most sacred days of the Christian year.
Easter Mass 11, featuring Christian-hating heavy metal bands, has been planned for a Northcote venue on Good Friday, mocking the day’s religious significance.
It would be headlined by Sydney shock group Jesus Christ – a tribute act to deceased US punk rocker GG Allin, who typically defecated and urinated on stage, rolled in faeces, consumed excrement and committed self-harm.
An online advertisement for the event says: “On this, the most important day on the Christian calendar, the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ will be destroying himself not for your sins, but for your pure entertainment.
“Performing communion at the mass service will be … Reverend Hackxwhore, Pastor Jigsaw Torture and Father Drongo.”
But Consumer Affairs Minister Michael O’Brien said the State Government would move to ban the event under liquor laws covering offensive images and religious vilification.
“I have asked the director of Liquor Licensing to look into whether this tasteless and moronic promotion complies with the Liquor Control Reform Act,” Mr O’Brien said.
A barbecue and meat tray offer is to be held at the gig on Good Friday – a strictly meat-free day for Catholics and some other Christians, but a religious holiday observed by all Christian faiths to commemorate the crucifixion of Jesus Christ.
Religious groups are expected to picket the April 22 event at Northcote bar 303 if it goes ahead. Anglican Archdeacon Andrew Oddy said the gig insulted people’s faith.
“The timing of the event is utterly insensitive and to have it on Good Friday is simply designed to cause offence,” he said.
Performer “Carcass” Butcher said the concert was “just a bit of harmless fun”.
The Brumby government unsuccessfully attempted to shut down a controversial Mother’s Day kickboxing tournament, called Mother’s Day Mayhem, in 2009.